Pro-Life and Pro-IVF: Can They Co-Exist? – Katy Faust

*This is an AI generated transcript, and may contain errors*

Mark Harrington (00:00):

It was last year that the Alabama Supreme Court ruled that embryos conceived through IVF were considered children. Remember that? And that set off a national firestorm of controversy and discussion about the role of IVF and whether it’s pro-life or not even Donald Trump jumped in and urged the legislature of Alabama to fix it. And then of course all our candidates have been talking about it ever since. And Kamala Harris, of course, is lying about it saying that Donald Trump wants to ban IVF. Well, we’re going to get to the truth today on the Mark Harrington show with my good friend and colleague, Katie faus of them before us podcast share it and leave a five star review and you can follow me on all the social media platforms as well. My guest today is Katie Faust and she is the founder and director of them before us. And we’re talking about IVF, which has been in the news, especially because of the presidential election.

(01:12):

We’ve got the candidates weighing in on it for better or for worse, for the most part for worse, but we’re going to deal with that today. That’s been very controversial. A lot of lies going around, a lot of propaganda, people trying to take advantage of the issue in order to gain votes and so forth. But so I wanted to bring Katie on. She’s been on before and also every summer speaks to our interns because when we go out on college campuses, we’re not just talking about abortion. Obviously IVF is part of the pro-life position that it’s immoral to conduct and be involved in. So we get questions about it and because it’s in the news, we get more and more questions about it. So this is very relevant, very relevant conversation. I hopefully you’ll gain some insights into how to speak intelligently and logically to people who are a little confused about it all, especially when we have so-called Pro-Lifers and pro-life candidates saying they’re in support of it. That’s a big problem. So let’s dive in here. Katie, thanks for being on the program. We appreciate you once again sharing time with us.

Katy Faust (02:19):

It’s always good to be with you. I really appreciate your work with Created Equal and the way that you are really holistically equipping the next generation to be pro-life as it relates to both the baby taking industry of abortion and the baby making industry of big fertility.

Mark Harrington (02:34):

Oh, I appreciate that. We enjoy it very much. It is a great fight. It is the premier battle of our day, in my opinion. So let’s do this since I contacted you and asked for you to come on the program, there’s been a lot happening of course with this Kamala Harris is lying about Trump’s position. Trump’s position is lousy, but we’ll talk about in a minute. The, there’s just a lot of lying going on. But the thing that bothered me the most, and I want to start out with this, is that there are two pro-life senators now that I wonder. That’s Ted Cruz and who’s the other senator? I’m sorry, Bri.

(03:13):

Yeah. Okay. Who introduced a bill and this is the IVF Protection Act. It’s a Senate bill 4 3 6 8 and they were on Fox News talking about this. And so Mr. Producer, if you would just kind of cue these up. I’ve got several clips and I want to get your input on these Katie, because for pro-lifers, when we hear other guys like Ted Cruz, of all people, I voted for him in 2016 in the primary here in Ohio. He’s been a staunch pro-life advocate and here they are advocating for IVF simply because the left is fear mongering and they felt like they needed a response. So go ahead. This is the first clip, Ted Cruz and Katie Britt senators, US senators who have introduced this law or this bill called the IVF Protection Act. Go ahead and play the first clip.

Video (04:04):

Why is IVF front and center because of Alabama? Correct.

Video (04:07):

Absolutely. And listen, what we want to do is the left is fear mongering saying that we are not going to protect I-V-F-I-V-F is protected and Senator Cruz and I are going to make sure it continues to be protective. It is. And I believe that we’re the party of families and we want to help people who are struggling with infertility, who want to see the miracle of life, help them achieve that. And this is going to do that. Go

Mark Harrington (04:30):

Ahead and go ahead and stop there. So a couple things. The Alabama Supreme Court explain the ruling, explain what happened when the legislature, Donald Trump jumped in and said, Hey, legislature has to fix this. Go back and explain what happened there that led to this whole controversy.

Katy Faust (04:46):

Well, it is routine in the big fertility world to create many more embryos than couples ever intend to parent or implant. And they need to store those surplus embryos, the ones that make it through the eugenics process to even get to the freezer. Many of these little lives that are created in a laboratory, in vitro, in glass are going to be weeded out because they are deemed nonviable. They won’t make the grade, they’re the wrong sex. Maybe they have the wrong eye color and they’ll be discarded before they even get the chance to be frozen. But then the surplus embryos that the couples want to retain maybe for future use will be frozen. Right now we have about 1.5 million frozen lives on ice in this country and in Alabama earlier this year, three couples won a wrongful death claim when one fertility clinic, through some mismanagement and accidental handling of some of the embryos, six embryos died. Three different couples were affected and those parents sued under the Wrongful Death Act as if they were their own children because they are their own children.

Mark Harrington (05:55):

They are right.

Katy Faust (05:55):

And the Alabama Supreme Court handed down a ruling that said, yeah, this wrongful death claim can be applied to embryos that were stored outside of the woman’s womb. So it actually was one of the most pro-life rulings we’ve ever seen.

(06:09):

Not just saying, Hey, this is an issue that should go back to the states. But actually these little lives that are frozen that are maybe three to five days old at this point that are not implanted in a woman’s uterus are humans. They’re children and they deserve protection. So that created spasms on the left and the right because the fertility industry recognized, which they have for a long time, that if IVF babies are considered babies worthy of protection, it would bring their business to a screeching halt. They will not cannot do business if we consider these tiny humans to be worthy of protection. And so that created a lot of different reactions to supposedly protect IVF. And let’s be very clear, when you’re protecting IVF, you’re just protecting doctors. Unlike what Senator Britt said in that clip, IVF is not pro-life. It is not pro-family and it is not pro-woman.

Mark Harrington (07:08):

Yeah, we’ll explain that because the next clip, that’s what they make the claim for, that this is pro-life to be able to provide this technology to families. Explain why IVF is not, we want parents to be able to have children who are struggling with infertility.

Katy Faust (07:26):

We do. Yes sir, we do, but we don’t want it at the expense of dead babies. That’s the problem. And even though 2% of children in this country are born through IVF, they’re the vast minority of children created in a laboratory, typically 93 to 97% of IVF babies are going to lose their right to life. Maybe three to 7% are going to be born alive after the gauntlet that they have to go through the eugenic screenings process from creation to implantation to then making it through selective reduction, the risks of freezing and thawing and transfer that this is just inherently, especially when you’re looking at children’s right to life, if you’re saying it’s because adults get what they want, maybe, but it’s not pro-family for the one third to two thirds of children who are created through IVF who lose a relationship with their mother or father each year because somebody else’s sperm or egg is used and so they grow up disconnected from their biological mother or father or both.

(08:26):

So if you mean it’s because adults are going to be able to customize the child that they want. Sure. If you mean that children grow up with their mother and father married and loving them and loving each other every day, the vast majority, not the majority, a huge bulk of the kids will not have this process protect their family. Is it pro-woman? I dunno. There’s an awful lot of risk that we are learning now goes along with carrying IVF children. It is always a statistically high risk. So that’s certainly the case when you’re talking about surrogacy. So no egg extraction that these women will undergo. If you want to hyperstimulate her ovaries and extract her eggs so she can use them for her own children or sell them to another woman that is not pro woman, these are high risk procedures. So unfortunately big fertility is not an industry centered around the child, the family, or the woman. It is centered around profits.

Mark Harrington (09:20):

My guest is Katie Faust and she is the founder and director of them before us and I’ll put her website in the show notes. It’s them before us.com. Alright, Mr. Producer, let’s go to the next clip. Again, this is Senator Ted Cruz and Senator Katie Britt talking to Fox News on Fox and Friends a couple of weeks ago in the introduction of their bill called the IVF Protection Act. Go ahead and play the next clip

Outro (09:44):

Sample where, look, there are issues we’re going to disagree on, but we should be able to come together 100 and nothing and say we stand with the ability of parents who want to love their kids to bring those children into the world.

Mark Harrington (09:58):

How do you respond to that? What’s wrong with that?

Katy Faust (10:00):

Well, because fundamentally the desires of the adults, the longings, the feelings, the suffering, that should not gauge our response to questions around IVF, it is the child rights, the right to life, the right to their mother and father. Those are the concrete issues. Those are the primary victims. When we get these questions wrong, whenever we center the conversation about marriage and family around what the adults want, children are going to be the victims. It is important for us to say no. The primary person that we need to be concerned with is the child, their right to life and their right to their mother and father. That applies not only to situations of infertility, that applies to questions about divorce, questions about same sex attraction, same sex parenting. And when an adult wants to transition because they have gender dysphoria, this is a worldview. Children have a right to life and a right to their mother and father that insists that children’s rights come before adult desires because the only alternative is for children to lose their right to life or their right to their mother and father. So adults can have what they want using adult desires, feelings, longings, losses as the gauge for policy or personal decisions will always victimize kids

Mark Harrington (11:11):

And the children are always left out. So let’s go to the next clip. This is about the legislation that they’ve introduced. Go ahead,

Video (11:18):

Bill and the state, but the Alabama legislature that has been named the most conservative legislature in the nation quickly acted to make sure that we affirmatively protected IVF and that procedure in the state. So those clinics are back open that’s moving forward. Just to make sure IVF is available in every state across the nation, Ted and I want to make sure that it stays that way. We want to speak with, all

Mark Harrington (11:40):

Right, go ahead and stop there. So to go back the Alabama Supreme Court rules, Donald Trump and a bunch of others say, oh, they’re going to fix this, and they rush to fix it, which basically protects IVF. And then these senators rushed to the camera saying they’re going to have a bill to protect it. IVF was really never threatened and still isn’t really. I mean in this case, yes, but across the country, where is IVF being prohibited or outlawed? I don’t know of any place.

Katy Faust (12:12):

No, it’s not.

Mark Harrington (12:12):

So what is the point of this legislation? To me, it’s caving to the left fearmongering instead of standing up and making the case that IVF is immoral.

Katy Faust (12:23):

I

Mark Harrington (12:24):

Just don’t get it from pro-life senators. I just don’t understand it.

Katy Faust (12:27):

Well, you don’t understand it. It’s absolutely inconsistent with the worldview they claim to espouse. If children genuinely do have a right to life from the moment of conception, and I don’t know if you’ve got it queued up here, but they did an interview with Bloomberg News where the interviewer put it straight to Senator Cruz and said, aren’t these children, don’t you think that children have a right to life from the moment of conception? Good question. He said, said a hundred percent of senators agree with this bill. He did not.

Mark Harrington (12:52):

He didn’t answer.

Katy Faust (12:53):

He didn’t have the balls to answer because he is a political coward.

Mark Harrington (12:58):

He is.

Katy Faust (12:58):

We do understand that IVF is a winning political issue and I think President Trump understands that as well. You put your finger to the wind and you see, hey, we will gain support if we incentivize and supposedly protect IVF. You’re just not going to protect the most vulnerable among us. It is something that pro-lifers should not go along with. Unfortunately, some people are using this to advance their own political careers. We do not participate in that kind of game playing. We defend the most vulnerable. Whether we win or lose, that is our fundamental duty as the strong in society acting on behalf to protect the weak, which is pretty much the biblical definition of justice.

Mark Harrington (13:44):

And we’ve talked about the Trump campaign caving on abortion over the last several months and the GOP, the platform being gutted of pro-life language and inserting protections for IVF and how this is just the way they’re headed, right, in order to gain votes supposedly. I don’t think it really works. I don’t think people are going to believe them, to be honest with you. I mean, they don’t trust them.

Katy Faust (14:08):

You don’t gain anything from this. You

Mark Harrington (14:10):

Don’t gain.

Katy Faust (14:10):

You just erode your base. I

Mark Harrington (14:12):

Do.

Katy Faust (14:12):

I used to tell people, if you’re really concerned about both candidates, if you’re concerned perhaps about the moral character or the moral failings of one of your candidates, vote the platform. And we used to have a platform that was pretty solid. The GOP did no longer especially on these core issues of life and family specifically. And so I can no longer say, Hey, vote the platform because that platform, as you said, has been adulterated for political purposes,

Mark Harrington (14:40):

Been gutted. Alright, next clip. Again, this is Senator 10 Cruz and Katie Britt on Fox and Friends a couple of weeks ago. Go ahead and play the clip,

Video (14:50):

Get rid of the fear-mongering, any anxiety that parents have as they’re trying to bring new life into this world, we want to take that away and we believe this should be bipartisan.

Video (14:57):

What’s interesting is I watched the Pope last night with Nora O’Donnell and he is not for this. How do you feel about that?

Outro (15:03):

Well, look, I think that’s a moral decision any person can make and that’s a decision they can make according to their faith and according to their understanding of God’s teachings. But as a matter of law, this should be a choice that is available for parents because it is profoundly pro family.

Mark Harrington (15:22):

Go ahead and stop. This is what really irks me and just frustrates me. Ted Cruz is pro-choice. He’s making a pro-choice argument. He can say, oh, the Pope says this, but that may be your moral view or the Bible says, but when it comes to matters of policy and law, we have to make decisions that are pro-family or whatever. She sounds like a pro-choice.

Katy Faust (15:49):

Yes. Well, and this does kind of show the hand of the real realities of big fertility, and that is that the baby making industry of big fertility and the baby taking industry of abortion are actually two sides of the same child. Commodifying coin. Both of them determine child rights based on the adult desires, based on adult wants. Abortion says that if a child is unwanted, you can violate their right to life and force them out of existence. And pro-lifers recognize that that is a grave evil that I’m sorry you’re suffering. I’m sorry that this was unplanned. I’m sorry that you had a difficult diagnosis. I’m sorry that this interrupts your career plans, but your feelings don’t justify victimizing kids. Big fertility says if a child is very wanted, you can force them into existence and violate many child’s right to life and perhaps that own child’s right to their mother and father so you can have what they want. Both of them see children, both of these wings of child commodification see children as objects of rights, not subjects of rights.

Mark Harrington (16:53):

Right, and disposable. And you’ve made the case. And I agree 100% that the baby making industry are the biggest abortionists in the country or the

Katy Faust (17:00):

World

Mark Harrington (17:00):

Really. I mean more babies dying in these freezers than there are at abortion mills across the country or by the abortion pill. Alright, this is the last clip from Frocks and friends again, Ted Cruz and Katie Brick. Go ahead and play this.

Outro (17:14):

Issues on abortion that we can disagree on. Katie and I are both strongly, but that is not anymore very, very different issue from the issue about whether parents should be able to affirmatively choose. We want to have a child and take advantage of medical technology to help them do that.

Mark Harrington (17:29):

Go ahead and respond to it. Same stuff.

Katy Faust (17:32):

Well, it’s just that I think that what they’re doing is they’re capitalizing on a very shallow caricature of what IVF is. We hear IVF and we think, oh, the sweet infertile heterosexual couple that is going to raise their own children. And we don’t know that there is rampant commodification of kids that the vast majority of these babies are going to be frozen forever donated to research thought and discarded or donated away to another couple. That is not part of how we think about things like IVF. For us, it’s just a solution to infertility. That’s not actually how it works. Like I said, a huge portion of these kids are going to be created through sperm and egg donors. They’re going to go home with single men, single women, double men, double women. None of these people have gone through any kind of screening or background checks.

(18:21):

It is the acquiring of children, the designing of children, and sometimes combined with surrogacy shipping children worldwide. It is the exact inverse of things like adoption that is centered around the rights of the child. This is a marketplace centered around the desires of adults. And unfortunately the IVF industry and even people like Senator Britt and Senator Cruz are advancing a very harmful industry for kids because we have been too naive about our concept of what IVF is unfortunately is not about babies. It is about on-demand designer babies shipped worldwide to anyone that has the money or means to acquire them. It is fundamentally in many of these cases, child trafficking.

Mark Harrington (19:03):

And I want to get to some of the newer technologies like this isn’t bad enough that are coming online here in the final minutes of the program. So let’s shift gears here because I did want to talk about the piece that you got published in the Federalist dealing with this. So-called Pro-Life pastor who says, and this is the title to his piece, ended up in the, I guess the Dallas Morning news and Fox News picked it up of course and reposted it. And the title is I’m a Pro-Life Pastor. IVF allowed me to become a dad. And you responded to this on The Federalist. It’s also on your website them before us.com. And what is the problem with this guy’s position? He’s a pastor. He says this is pro-family, pro-life to be IVF and without it that he couldn’t have had children. He wouldn’t have been a dad. He’s pulling on the heartstrings. Here’s what’s wrong with this guy’s position. What’s wrong with this pastor’s view?

Katy Faust (20:00):

There are so many things wrong. Maybe not necessarily with his view, but with the article that he wrote, which really just gave a Christian stamp over the top of some of the worst excesses and policies of big fertility. He says that he, because I communicated with a little bit on Twitter and read some of the other comments that he had on other social media. He’s like, we did it in a totally pro-life way. We didn’t have any surplus embryos. We didn’t abort any of them. They did freeze some. It sounds like they went back for all of them, but he’s like, you can do IVF in a pro-life way. And I said, that’s not the article you wrote. That is not what you wrote. You in essence just said, this is an unmitigated good that God led you to it. You gave a pass to this industry.

(20:44):

You never talked about the rampant destruction of young babies through this industry. And then you strawman all of the strongest pro-life voices that are critical of IVF saying, we denigrate your children. We don’t think that they’re worthy of life. We see them as lesser than. I’m like, no, no, no, I’m sorry sir. But if you listen to any of us, what you’ll hear is we actually have so much respect. We believe that all children have such inherent dignity and that actually leads us to critique big fertility. We know that your children are made in the image of God. We just believe that the 93 to 97% of IVF babies that are not born alive have the same level of dignity and are worthy of the same level of protection. So unfortunately, I think that he did what is very often done whenever you’re trying to remake the social fabric to recast the nature of the family. He frames himself as the victim, he and his wife and what they want as the victim. And whenever you have adults framed as the victims, it is always kids who are going to pay the price.

Mark Harrington (21:50):

Good point, good point. And the Bible speaks about suffering. Of course, we want to alleviate suffering and if at all possible, but not at expensive children. And the Bible talks about Paul having the thorn in the flesh. You mentioned that in this piece and how God said that my grace is sufficient for you. So some suffering, you’re going to end up having to deal with your entire life and you’re not just given the freedom to alleviate it any way you wish. Let’s talk a little bit about just the intent for sex, marriage and babies. You call it the insolvable triad. Explain that.

Katy Faust (22:32):

Yeah. It’s not a Katie original mainly. It’s good.

Mark Harrington (22:36):

I liked it. I thought, oh, that was a good one.

Katy Faust (22:38):

I’ve heard John Stonetree at the Colson Center say it and he says that he got it from Jennifer Ach Morris at Ruth Institute. Both of those organizations are very solid and worthy of your time and attention. But there does seem to be in scripture, even though there is no, thou shalt not make babies in Petri dishes verse in scripture, there does tend to be this holy triad. There needs to be unity between sex, marriage and babies that God intended for those to go together 100% at the time. And when you separate anyone from the other two, you will get child victimization. So when the sexual revolution, they wanted to separate sex from marriage, you don’t have to be in a marriage to have sex. Well, that led to skyrocketing rates of out of woodlock birth. Those kids disproportionately suffer. Then you’ve got these separating sex from babies, from sex through birth control.

(23:33):

Like we are going to decide when the babies come, when they’re welcome, whether or not we want them. That mindset, if I can have sex without babies, that led to this idea that I can kill them if I get pregnant, unintended. And then that also led to this mindset of then if we can create babies without sex through IVF, we decide whether they live or die. We decide whether or not they’re implanted. And so you see the separation of all three of these always results in, I mean, mass casualties for kids. So if you are in doubt about whether or not something is permissible from a biblical perspective, ask yourself, does it separate sex marriage and babies? If so, there’s a really good chance that you’re going to be victimizing the least of these.

Mark Harrington (24:17):

Yeah, I talk about this all the time to college students. They’ll ask about what caused all this? Well, we all know that route, right? It’s sex outside of marriage, unwillingness to make the commitment to the covenant of marriage sex for pleasure. That’s what birth control did. That’s what the Griswold decision did, and that’s all it is. It’s entertainment for college students and they think that it’s archaic and you’re a dinosaur to think that we can behave ourselves, we can control ourselves. We’re not barnyard animals here. We can actually control our sexual interests and keep it within the confines of marriage. It seems like a very outdated viewpoint, but I bring it up almost in every conversation to get ’em to think differently. And I think that’s a very strong point here. I want to finish with this, Katie. I know you’re actually, we’ve got a couple more things here, but the pastor says this. He tries to define what pro-life is, and I think it’s interesting. He says The whole purpose of being pro-life is to see the value in children and help moms and dads enjoy their God-given ability to raise them right or wrong.

Katy Faust (25:30):

So there are so many problems with his article, both theological and biological. He warps scripture, he warps biology to justify his decision to create children through IVF. And I have a little experience with idolatry in my own life because my heart is an idol making factory unfortunately, and I know what idolatry does to me. Idolatry warps reality. For me. I can find ways to justify getting that idol that I want. And to me, this is one telltale sign that this pastor absolutely has slipped into a mentality of idolatry because he’s warping what pro-life means to justify his behavior. What is pro-life? It is the unflinching protection of children, whether born or unborn and defending them against every threat. It is not about giving adults what they want. It’s actually probably the exact opposite of giving adults what they want. So I think that he unfortunately has his vision veiled, and that tends to be the nature of falling into an idolatrous relationship with something other than your creator.

Mark Harrington (26:56):

Agreed. And more churches should address this issue. I think that we’ve been negligent over the years. I think even the birth control discussion is absent for most churches, let alone abortion or IVF to bring this into perspective. And then when you hear people like this who are supposedly pro-life and pastors giving license for this kind of thing, you can understand the confusion that’s out there. I want to finish with this, and that is just talking about some of the newer technologies that are coming online. Seth Drayer sent me this clip. This was just an article that was in the, I think the journal in Brown University talking about I-V-G-I-V-G. Like we didn’t have it. It wasn’t bad enough. What’s IVG?

Katy Faust (27:44):

Yeah, in vitro ga esis. So what IVF is, is it is a way to assemble babies without sex. And you need three things for that baby assembly process. You need sperm, you need egg, and you need womb. Sperm is pretty easy to get at and fairly cheap. Eggs are harder to acquire, more expensive, more risky wombs, probably the most difficult part of the baby assembly process. And so what they’re trying to do is figure out how to cut women out of this process altogether, the egg and the womb. And so IVG is a way to do that. Human eggs are probably one of the most expensive commodities in the world sort of by weight. And if we could just figure out a way to get eggs without women, that would be fantastic. And that’s what IVG is. It is making human eggs or human sperm from some other cell of the body like a skin cell.

(28:41):

So for example, a man who is maybe single and doesn’t necessarily want to buy an egg and doesn’t want to have to deal with the gametes or the intrusion of another person and might come in and claim parental rights over the child someday, what they hope is that they can make a human egg out of his skin cell and then he could contribute the egg and the sperm and one man could genetically be 100% of that child’s parentage. So you can imagine the absolute dystopic future that we are facing if you are able to create sperm and egg cells from any cell of someone’s body. I mean, you could steal a cell from somebody and make an egg out of it, and they could have genetic children that they weren’t even aware of. I mean, it’s just, it’s dystopic stuff. It

Mark Harrington (29:27):

Sure is.

Katy Faust (29:28):

Yeah. The other thing is probably the most costly part of the whole baby assembly process is finding a woman who will offer her womb up for nine and a half months. It’s commercial surrogacy is banned throughout much of the Western world because they recognize that it is a tool of exploitation, of vulnerable, economically vulnerable women. It’s very hard to find a woman even when you’re paying her 60 or $80,000 to give up her body for that period of time and then to forfeit the emotional connection that very often she forges with the child. So if we could create artificial wounds, that would be even better. So I wrote about that at public discourse earlier this year. You can Google Katie Fs to artificial wos public discourse to get my take on how that would absolutely obliterate. I don’t even know if children would survive that process, but places like China are already working on it. They’re already developing robot nannies who can oversee children in artificial wombs and adjust their oxygen or their food intake. If you’re going to have 10 babies that you’re just dating in an artificial womb, then you can kind of see how they develop, decrease and increase based on your desirability. I mean, if you are not clear about reproductive technologies now, I will tell you what, there is so much more threat and confusion on the way now is the time to defend children’s right to life, right to their mother and father because it only gets darker from here.

Mark Harrington (30:58):

Yeah, let’s leave it on a positive note despite the fact that this dystopian future that apparently is upon us here with these technologies, if you would just exhort our audience here on how to continue to fight the good fight and where to find out more about I-V-F-I-V-G, all this new technology that’s coming online that is not pro-life, although it pretends to be.

Katy Faust (31:22):

Well, the good news is natural law is on our side. Biology is on our side. The word of God is on our side. Studies and research are on our side. Don’t ever let anybody cow you into silence by telling you that you’re on the wrong side of history or you’re no

Mark Harrington (31:43):

Anti-science. Yeah,

Katy Faust (31:44):

Anti-science. You stand firmly on the fundamental rights of children, their right to life, their right to their mother and father, and you will always be on the side of justice even if you’re in the minority on some of these questions. Ultimately, the world will come around and validate what you are saying because these fundamental child realities will not change. The nature of children is still the same. They come from a man and woman. They have a right to be known and loved by that man and woman. They thrive when they’re raised by that man and woman, and they have a right to life raised by that man and woman whenever possible. So you are right, even if it means that you are standing alone or you’re standing in the minority, do not stop fighting for kids. And certainly we’d love to have you visit us@thembeforeus.com, subscribe and follow our work, donate to our work. We are on a war path to defend children against all kinds of threats around the world, and we would love to have you stand with us.

Mark Harrington (32:43):

Thank you so much, Katie. Again, Katie Faus with us today, founder and director of them before us, and you can go to them before us.com and you can follow her on all her social media platforms. Katie, thank you for being an outspoken advocate for children and being right at the forefront of the battle to protect these young little ones from death and exploitation. We appreciate your work.

Katy Faust (33:10):

Yeah, well thank you. Thank you for advancing the rights of children. Thank you for forming the next generation because they’re going to have to be aware of much more than just abortion if we want to protect little lives.

Mark Harrington (33:23):

Well, everyone, I hope you enjoyed Katie Faus there, who’s the founder and director of them before us talking about IVF. It’s in the news, it’s controversial. There’s a lot of lies being bantered about, especially from the Kamala Harris campaign and even Donald Trump telling you that he’s going to support IVF. He’s supposedly pro-life. I mean, there’s just so much confusion that we need to be able to think clearly about this because it’s not pro-life to be pro IVF. It’s just not because we’re exploiting children and they become the victims of our own personal pursuits. So again, you can go to then before us.com. That’s then before us.com. All right. To wrap it up, just want to give you a few updates on what’s going on before the election. That is we have our Battle states tour, which is underway. In fact, we visited a couple of states and we’ve got the map here in front of us here.

(34:24):

We’ll be heading off to Florida here soon as part of this. And of course, there are plenty of states left to visit before election day, but becoming next week, it is October 7th through 12. Yours truly, along with a team from the Canadian Center for Bioethical Reform and created Equal along with other volunteers, will be in the state of Florida doing door-to-door activism and canvassing, as well as all the other stuff we do. Going to college campuses, overpasses, displaying abortion, victim photography and video in the public square around the city of Orlando. So if you are in the state of Florida and you want to come see us, be part of this whole thing, you can go to operation save america.com. That’s operation save america.com. I’ll be speaking, I’m not sure what night I’m going to be speaking yet. Hopefully I’ll know something by the end of the week.

(35:20):

We’ve got a list of really a lot of great speakers here that are going to be speaking from October 9th through 12. That’s in Orlando Operations Save America. I’ll be there with our team and they’ll be speaking at night and along with activism during the day for those three days or four days. And of course, we’re going to be there a couple extra days. So if you are in the state of Florida, want to make the trip, we need your help because Florida really is the mother of all battles. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, it’s because it has a 60% threshold to amend the state constitution. We’ve got to win Florida. We got to win others too. But we got to win this one. It would be the crown jewel, the prize of the abortion industry if we were to be defeated there.

(36:05):

And so we’ve got our billboard truck on the road. We just, were up in the state of Michigan because it is a key battleground state for the presidency. We were at the Michigan State, Ohio State Football game. You see the video or the pictures here of our LED Billboard truck making the rounds, and that’ll be hitting the ground again here within weeks to hit these states that are out in the Midwest and Florida. So again, pray for us as we head out to Florida next week to be part of this outreach and canvassing operation. And we’ll be at the Operation Save America national event. We’ll see you next time. God bless you. God bless America, and remember America to bless God. You been

Video (36:52):

Listening to Mark Harrington, your radio activist. For more information on how to make a difference for the cause of life, liberty and justice, go to created equal.org.org. To follow mark, go to Mark Harrington show.com. Be sure to tune in next time for your marching orders in the culture war.